Monday, September 13, 2010

Turn down hysteria

A local newspaper letter says:
Haven't we learned anything by persecuting and incarcerating innocent Japanese citizens during World War II? Let's turn down all this anti-Muslim hysteria. Who do we think was responsible for the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and the Witch Hunts? That doesn't mean the Bible is evil and should be burned. There are radical elements in all religions and any religious text can be twisted to justify destructive actions. Muslims are not lesser than any other American citizens. No one religion owns God. The only side He is on is the side of peace.

Arlette Lees, Corralitos
Since she asks, I think that the Mohammedans were responsible for the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition. The Christian Europeans had to take these measures, or they would have been overrun by Mohammedan invaders.

The lesson learned from World War II was that we have to fight for our freedoms. Yes, some Japanese and Germans were relocated. She should read about what Japan did to American citizens.

She acts like all religions are the same. That can only be said by someone who lacks religious convictions and lacks knowledge of religious history. To everyone else, some religions are better than others.


Anonymous said...

Roger, your comment "I think that the Mohammedans were responsible for the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition. The Christian Europeans had to take these measures, or they would have been overrun by Mohammedan invaders" would appear to indicate a singular lack of knowledge of European history. The Moors were driven out of Spain in 1492. The First Crusade took place in 1101, and went marching off to the Holy Land. At no point was there a Crusade launched to remove the Moors from Spain. And the less said about the sacking of Constantinople, the better. The only Crusade to take place anywhere near Spain, was the Albigensian Crusade, against the Cathars of southern France starting in 1209.
In addition, the Spanish Inquisition replaced the Papal Inquisition, in 1478, and was originally designed to intended in large part to ensure the orthodoxy of those who converted from Judaism and Islam.
Please explain, with examples why you feel the Mohammedans were responsible for both. Or are you saying because they took over the Holy Land, it was ok to launch a fatwa against them?

PsyGremlin said...

Oh and slightly off topic, but please could you give examples where the Catholic Church promoted science. Especially during the Dark Ages. Thank you.

Roger said...

From the 7th century on, the Mohammedan world expanded by force and by conquest. It took most of the Middle East and North Africa, and it would have taken Europe also, except for the Christians fighting back in various battles and wars. Some of these were called crusades, while the Spanish ones were called the Reconquista. Your complaint seems to be about the terminology used for these battles.

I do think that because Mohammedan armies were invading territories and threatening Europe, then it was okay for the European Christians to fight back. And yes, I think that it was a good thing that they did.

Most of the European scientific advances of the Dark Ages were those promoted by the Catholic Church. You can read more in Science in the Middle Ages.

PsyGremlin said...

Roger, the Crusades were launched with one aim and one aim only - to liberate the Holy Land. The Mohammedans had been driven back into Spain in the time of Clovis, and Europe itself was not under threat at the time of the Crusades.

But let's take your example. The Mohammedans were responsible for the Crusades. Ok, are they then also responsible for the actions of the Crusaders? Or does things like "Kill them all, God will know His own" not bother you? Or the actions of the Inquisition?

Let's take it one step further. Let's say the Crusades were to drive the heathens from the Holy Land. What is Islam's Holy Land? Are there infidels in there at the moment? By your logic, are they then not responsible for the jihad declared against the West?

You can't have it both ways, sorry.

PsyGremlin said...

I'll have a read through the WP article (thank you for not giving me a Conservapedia link to read) and revert back to you on that. However, I see little there that links directly to the church promoting science. Plus, any scholarly works that would have been worked upon, would certainly not have been passed on to the common man. Add to that the fact that it wasn't until the adoption of Arabic numbers that any mathematics could be done - again, I don't see many Church figures cropping up here. And just imagine the incalculable amount of information that was lost when the Church ordered the burning of the Alexandria library.

Roger said...

To answer you questions, the history of Europe is a history of warfare. I am not here to defend every slogan that a European warrior might have uttered. It does not bother me that 500 years ago, Spain allowed some Moors and Jews to remain if they converted to Christianity, and then took measures to make sure that they really converted.

Islam's Holy Land is Mecca and Medina. No, Saudi Arabia does not allow any infidels there. Yes, I do think that the Saudis are partially responsible for the jihad declared against the West.

No, the Church did not order the burning of the Library of Alexandria. It sounds as if you have been brainwashed by the recent movie about Hypatia.